ozzy2015

Heavy rain, Water leak

235 posts in this topic

Hi,

I was hoping someone could help, i currently have a F10 520d which has been leaking water in the rear passenger side footwell, i cant seem to find where it is coming from.

The sides of the footwell are all dry the top of the floor mat is dry so im assuming it is comming from underneath the car. 

Any idea?

I have no sunroof and all seals on the door seem fine

 

thanks in advance

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I have exactly the same problem with my 2014 F11, except my floor mat was soaked.  I've had the car back to the dealer who kept it for 4 days over the weekend and apparently stripped the car back and water tested it twice but couldn't find where the water was coming from.

 

I've since collected it and driven it for a week.  Floor seemed to be drier (but still damp) but has been wetter again, although not to the same extent, since the rain at the weekend.

 

I've read elsewhere that there is a common issue with the vapour barriers inside the door cards and the water effectively runs out of the bottom of the door card, and hence in to the footwell, rather than being directed through the drains around the edges of the door to the bottom corner where it drains.

 

My car needs a service in a couple of weeks so I'm proposing to monitor until then but I'm not convinced that its a one off and the issue has been resolved.

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I have exactly the same problem with my 2014 F11, except my floor mat was soaked.  I've had the car back to the dealer who kept it for 4 days over the weekend and apparently stripped the car back and water tested it twice but couldn't find where the water was coming from.

 

I've since collected it and driven it for a week.  Floor seemed to be drier (but still damp) but has been wetter again, although not to the same extent, since the rain at the weekend.

 

I've read elsewhere that there is a common issue with the vapour barriers inside the door cards and the water effectively runs out of the bottom of the door card, and hence in to the footwell, rather than being directed through the drains around the edges of the door to the bottom corner where it drains.

 

My car needs a service in a couple of weeks so I'm proposing to monitor until then but I'm not convinced that its a one off and the issue has been resolved.

Well played around today, i put some tissue paper in between the door and door sill, and sprayed the door and surrounding areas with a pressure washer for 5 minutes. tissue paper was dry,

Did the same again all over the car and it was still dry, door sill/vapour barrier is not the issue.

 

I did however stumble upon this, 

 

and

 

will be trying the above video on the weekend to see if i can spot a leak and fix it, unfortunately no warranty

 

thanks 

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 l had same water leak, n/s rear door, used plastic bin bag to stop water coming in till bmw repaired leak under warranty,  :razz:

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So my water issue returned and I booked my car in to another dealer to be looked at.  Dropped it off at 8am today and the guy said they'd probably need to keep it for 3 days.  Had a call at 5pm to say it had been subject to 4 hours of water testing after being stripped on the inside but they couldn't find the leak, BUT they did find a crack in a a/c pipe which was letting water drain back into the car inside of draining out underneath the car.  Part ordered from Germany and will be here in 3-4 days  :razz:

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I get a pool of water that collects around and inside the inner rear near side door seal.

To me it looks like the drain holes are being squeezed or obstructed when the door is shut.

 

We get a puddle on the tarmac each time the door is opened and the sill is usually dripping but so far nothing in the car itself.

 

I think I will be punching a few more holes in it.

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I had a go on the weekend trying to figure out where the leak was coming from.

Started by taking the glove box out and could see water dripping as shown in the video above. So looked around and found lots of leaves wedged near the air vent intake, i ended up taking a full carrier bags worth of leaves and muck with a long screwdriver and vacuum.

Hoping this was the cause but no, still wet.

:cry:

 

anyone no where the air con drain pipe is located, possibly blocked?

Edited by ozzy2015

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I would have thought that this will still be a blockage from all those leaves and crud, causing water to not escape downwards but to linger by the bulkhead. More dismantling and cleaning required?

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finally all cleared up

 

first take the middle floor cover of, front cover will be need to be loosened but can be left on,

 

post-61646-0-63778300-1450128505_thumb.j

 

 

the location of the drain cover

 

post-61646-0-29422100-1450128509_thumb.j

 

post-61646-0-92611000-1450128512_thumb.j

 

 

Video 12-12-2015, 09 56 49.mov

 

remove 4 start type screws 

 

post-61646-0-86488300-1450128517_thumb.j

 

post-61646-0-24874800-1450128524_thumb.j

post-61646-0-90990600-1450128529_thumb.j

 

the yellow grommet is where the water enters

 

finally put everything back together

 

approximately 1hr 30 min to do, could be done in an hour if you are not lazy  :razz:

 

 

you can also access it from the the top of the engine without dismantling, you will need long arms and small hands

post-61646-0-46579100-1450128535_thumb.j

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So my water issue returned and I booked my car in to another dealer to be looked at. Dropped it off at 8am today and the guy said they'd probably need to keep it for 3 days. Had a call at 5pm to say it had been subject to 4 hours of water testing after being stripped on the inside but they couldn't find the leak, BUT they did find a crack in a a/c pipe which was letting water drain back into the car inside of draining out underneath the car. Part ordered from Germany and will be here in 3-4 days :razz:

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Hi,did BMW fix the leak you mention?as I have the exact same problem on my 2013 f11, it's still under warranty and is at my local BMW garage at the moment but hey don't seem to know what to do,any help would be much appreciated!

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New member here me.  I have just had exactly the same problem as Ozzy posted above and it took me three weeks to find it!  No dealership help ( the costs would have been massive) I had to do a 50% nearside interior strip out and then I used special UV tracer dye and uv lamp to betray where the leak was coming in.

 

Water ingress was slow and very minor and only showed when the car was on a particular tilt angle. With the carpets up and car stripped out I sat it out in the rain for three days and no leak ! I put 6000 ltrs of water on it via a fire hose and still no leak. I then filled a 1000 ltr IBC containing water and the UV tracer dye and still no leak but then I moved the car to do the other side and hey presto just the slightest of a run at the back of the passenger glove box area. Turned out to be the yellow grommet and insulation plate shown as per Ozzy above. New grommet and insulation plate fitted at a cost of £70.00.

 

I had the dehumidifier in the car for 24 hours / 4 days drying out the carpets and backing foam I got at least 3 gallons out of the passenger side. BMW would have charged and simply fitted new ones. The car has been off the road in my workshop for just short of three weeks....   What a bitch to find, I should have looked here sooner and maybe I may have come to a quicker resolve.

 

Good work Ozzy Good work! 

 

Regards 

Pete

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Hi I am a 520d owner, that is new to this forum, and this is my first posting but I believe, I have had a similar water leak problem with my 3 year old 5 series.  The dealership that repaired the leak, said that a membrane in the rear passenger off side door needed replacing, and the front passenger seat had to be removed to remove the carpet for drying.  The email below addressed to BMW UK should explain the matter.

 

From: G John
Sent: 23 December 2015 23:05
To: 'customer.service@bmw.co.uk'; 'contact.us@bmw.co.uk';
Subject: RE: Your BMW - case reference number: ***************

 

Good evening Gemma and Danny,

 

Registration:*********

 

Chasis Number:********

 

 

I am naturally disappointed with both of your responses, and I wish to make it very clear that:

(1)   I am complaining

(2)   I would like a refund to the BMW repair bill for the sum of £448.45 that I included in the previous email as an attachment

(3)   I would like confirmation of whether or not BMW would thoroughly investigate the problem, to confirm that this was not due to a manufacturing or design defect, as I have found similar problems reported by BMW owners (documented below in this email)

(4)   I want confirmation of your 'Final Response' on this matter so that I can take this to the Financial Ombudsman Service if I remain dissatisfied with your final response

 

This matter concerns the car that I purchased from a BMW dealership and subsequent problems that I have experienced concerning a fault and the BMW warranty.

 

In June 2012 I took ownership of a new BMW 520 Efficient Dynamics.  I have always been impressed by the reputation of the BMW brand and particularly the engineering, which I had believed to be second to none.

 

Unfortunately in recent months I became aware of damage being caused to the rear foot-well carpet as water appeared to be finding its way in to that area. I took the car to the dealership from which I had purchased the vehicle to be told, on inspection, that the membrane within the rear door frame had failed. It is quite possible, indeed almost certain, that this problem had occurred months ago and possibly within the warranty period, and had remained un-noticed by me as the rear seats of the car are used only to accommodate a baby who uses a baby seat, therefore no one’s feet rested on the floor mats of the impacted area.

 

The car is three years old, and as a comparison my one and only child is 1.5 years, so that faulty rear door was really only used for the last 1.5 years, so in my opinion this is less than the normal wear and tear you would expect on a car door.  In addition the car has exceptionally low mileage – under 15 000 miles, as I use public transport to commute to work.   From the BMW forums, I can see this is a type of water leak problem has impacted other owners, one of whom was lucky to report it when the car was under warranty:

 

http://forum.bmw5.co.uk/topic/112666-f10-rear-door-water-leak/

http://forum.bmw5.co.uk/topic/116098-heavy-rain-water-leak/

 

I requested that the dealership, in view of the above facts, consider meeting the costs of the repair. They chose to hide behind the terms of the warranty and, while this is an understandable response, I believe it fails to recognize BMW’s responsibilities, failings in the car’s engineering and belies their esteemed reputation. I was left with no choice other than to have the repair carried out and to pay the cost of it.

 

I am extremely dissatisfied with having been charged and am asking, therefore, that you consider reimbursing the cost of putting this right £448.45.  While I accept that my reporting of the fault falls outside the time frame of the warranty, I am sure you will agree that it is a fault that would not be expected or acceptable in a car of this age; well-maintained having been serviced throughout by BMW and with such low mileage.

 

I look forward to hearing from you in anticipation of a positive response to this request.

Your sincerely

John G

Edited by John G
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I am suffering from exactly the same problem with my F10. My rear footwell carpet is damp rather than soaking so it's presumably just started.

 

Having experienced this at length with a previous E39 Touring I looked straight at the base of the door card and surprise surprise this is exactly where the water is coming from.

 

My car was purchased as an AUC and is covered under the AUC warranty which of course helpfully excludes 'weatherstrips and seals' so that's that out of the window - back to crawling around DIY like I've just purchased an old E39.

 

Frankly it staggers me that this remains an issue on the 5 Series. This was a well known and chronic problem with the E39, a car that came out 20 years ago. That it still exists as a design flaw on the current generation just boggles the mind. I didn't mind it so much on a 6 figure mileage 10+ year old E39, it goes with the territory, but to find it rearing it's head again on a far newer, far lower mileage approved used car is just frustrating in the extreme. 

 

I don't have an opportunity to fix this for some time but I'm keen to avoid it getting worse. Can anyone suggest a simple enough bodge to protect my interior in the meantime? I rarely use the door in question so it can remain closed if that's what it takes.

Edited by Mike530i

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Hi Mike530i

Thanks for replying and I trust you had a good Christmas.  If there are any other F10 owners, suffering water leaks either via their doors or any where else into the cabin, please let us know.  I am trying to accumulate evidence, to BMW UK, to show them this is a design/engineering/quality build flaw that should not be happening to cars that are relatively new.  This is my first BMW, and I have to say I am very disappointed, I was expecting the build quality considering the price to be far superior. Previously, I owned Volkswagens of much higher mileage, and age, that never leaked, in fact my first car was a VW Golf, it lasted me 14 years and 200,000 miles, and never leaked, a testament to Germany engineering, and I would have expected a BMW 5 series brought brand new and costing more than twice the price of a new VW equivilant to be better made.

 

With greetings of the festive season and wishing all a happy New Year.

Regards

John

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Hi All,

 

I have the same problem as everyone above on a 2012 F11. Pool of water in the rear left footwell. I'm going to have a good look at the car today and will update later.

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Hi,I'm just interested if anyone leaves their car parked on a slope,as I have the same problem with my 2013 f11,BMW have had it for a week,changed the yellow grommit mentioned and it's starting to get wet again.My drive has a steep incline so it's nearly always parked nose up.Ive just booked it in again but this time I'll be getting a loan car as I think they may have it for some time,luckily it's still under warranty but I think I may change the car before this run out as BMW seem clueless as to what the problem is and I don't want to be left with a wet footwell and no warranty.When I do change it Im not having another BMW!

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Hi richard291007, thanks for your posting, mine is parked on a fairly flat driveway.  I wish BMW, was subject to the equivalent of the "freedom of information" to find out if we are just the unlucky few who have purchased "lemons" or whether BMW needs to be honest, and recall all F10 and F11's to check the water leaks like those reported here are corrected.  In fairness to BMW, I do know friends of mine that have never had a problem with their BMW, but they are 3 series owners, it does make me wonder if the 3 series is better built.

Edited by John G

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Hi All,

 

I spent pretty much all day yesterday trying to find the source of the water ingress. I stripped out the front and rear N/S foot wells to find an inch of water in the water channels and foot well along with the wiring harness!! The bottom of the carpet/sound insulation was also full of water as it acts like a sponge. I used 4 full size towels to soak up as much water as possible.

 

The bottom of both doors was dry along with the carpet edge directly below the doors so I don't think its coming from the doors.

 

I then looked under the bonnet and if you remove the cover to the air-conditioning fan motor which is also on the N/S just below the windscreen, their is a large opening into the cabin. There was also a large accumulation of water under fan housing. I couldn't inspect under the housing so I removed the wheel arch cover and continued to examine from under the arch. Their are 4 brake pipes directly below the fan motor which come down into the wheel arch and when I removed the rubber gasket around them a large volume of water came out. I hope that was the problem but only time and rain will tell!!

 

I couldn't find the yellow grommet that ozzy2015 speaks about but I was unable to get my car on a ramp and was working on it on my drive. I just hope that I haven't bought a "lemon" as mentioned by John G, I have previously also owned 2 x 330D estates 55 plate and 03 plate, put over 200,000 miles on them and did nothing but change the oil.

 

"Watch this space"

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I tackled this today.

 

The door card comes off very easily and inside I found that the membrane had come away from the door about half way up. Using a heat gun it was easy to 'melt' the sticky substance they use to hold the membrane in place and reaffix it. It's stuck fast now and everything is back together. Some people have tried hairdryers but I don't think they are hot enough.

 

No idea if this is fixed or not, but I'll keep you updated.

If it is fixed then it makes the fact BMW won't cover this under used car warranty all the more ridiculous - it was a 30 minute job from start to finish, it'd take a dealer tech even less time and no parts were required. So for 20 minutes workshop time you remove the bitter taste from the customers mouth...

 

That said I've no idea how to begin to tackle drying the carpet..

Edited by Mike530i

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Whilst not having water in the rear footwells, I have been progressively chasing a solution to water collecting on the rear door kick plates which annoyed me.

When I first got the car the, my offside was exhibiting the problem, and then after an ambient lighting retrofit which involved temporarily removing both rear door membranes, I ended up with puddlling on both sides....Doh...

So I tried the hot air gun approach...... but it did not completely fix the problem...just reduced it a bit.

So off with the door cards again......and i have now completely fixed both sides by renewing the black mastik material used.

The stuff I used is a butyl sealant strip, which I got from eBay for ~£7 for 8 metres:

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Butyl-Tape-Strip-Bolt-On-Panel-Sealer-Bonding-Vans-Cars-Roof-Fish-Pond-Liner-/221224948406?hash=item338208d2b6:g:n2sAAOSwfcVUGYyj

 

For me the problem area is lowest point on the membrane bottom edge...there's a definite U section where the water is meant to collect and thenpass through a hole in the metalwork back into the door cavity.

The original BMW Butyl mastik in this area fails to adhere to the foam material over time and the water passing over the gap deposits silt/dust which means the "tackines" is totally lost.

So heres a quick how to...

1) remove Door card, described elsewhere

2) Using a new Stanley knofe blade, carefully peel back and cut through the existing mastik material leaving rouhly 50% on both the door and the membrane, take care to keep these freshly cut surfaces clean to retain their tackiness.

3) Use a plastic scraper to remove the failed/damaged section of mastik, I replaced the whole bottom edge run whilst I was at it.....

Brake cleaner helps to remove the old residues and help to also clean the backside of the foam plastic membrane....equally important to do this also...

4) Replace the removed Mastik section with fresh new Butyl strip from the one you get from Coralgraph (eBay shop)..it's  bit thicker than original but thats fine here.

5) carefully reassemble the membrane using the 2 location "bulged" features on it....I used a wallpaper seam roller to gently force it down all the way around again...obviously keeping everything clean and dry will help with good adhesion.

6) Replace the door card again..and then one more important job......

7) Inspect the inner rubber door seal, it is holllow and will have typically filled with water/mud etc. use your finger to squeeze out all remaing water from it...mine had loads in it.

I guess it fills up as a by-product of the lower membrane edge seal having failed....but the jury's still out on this one.

 

 

So 2 weeks on, and after many days of heavy rain I am still bone dry on my new M Sport Kick Plates..halelujiah...

So if you are experiencing the rear  footwells filling up...this is good place to start.

 

Peter.

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Hi all, I'm new here. I'm from Eire. Unfortunately I have water in passenger side rear footwell on my F10 2011 model 520d msport. It has only 35,000 miles on & last thing I was expecting was to be looking for source of a water leak in such a fresh bmw.Handed in to my local bmw dealer where I bought it about 15 months ago to investigate it and havering everything in the back end of the car checked it hasn't been found and might mention €300 poorer. Now they say they will have to take out front carpets, seat, glove box etc to see is it coming in at front & travelling back under the underlay beneath the carpet & thus sitting under back footwell. This will be more expense & not guaranteed of an answer. Not happy with this, car with such low mileage & only 4.5 yrs old I contacted bmw customer support at head office & (used same language as John G above in his email to bmw) I was told that I would have to pay for everything & no comeback whatsoever. It was a total waste of time phoneing them . I Said I would pay for whatever was done sofar but could they continue to investigate until leak is found with the further cost squashed & have no problem paying for the actual seal or whatever they find having to be replaced. It's just the manpower i want help with but no all this has fallen on deaf ears. Totally disappointed having drove old cars for years & finally affording a newish one that surly won't have problems with.

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